in conjunction with APRICOT 2013

Transcript - NIR SIG


While every effort is made to capture a live speaker's words, it is possible at times that the transcript contains some errors or mistranslations. APNIC apologizes for any inconvenience, but accepts no liability for any event or action resulting from the transcripts.

Izumi Okutani: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to NIR SIG. My name is Izumi Okutani, Chair of this session, and I also have my Co-chair, Jessica Shen, from CNNIC, co-chairing the session.

Just for those of you who are attending this session for the first time, it's basically the SIG that exchanges information and activities about NIR services and some of the projects that NIRs are up to and also for APNIC to share any services or any notable activities that are relevant for NIRs.

As you can see, it's quite a small session, cosy, so please really feel free to ask questions quite casually.

We do have a dedicated mailing list for this session. It's mostly announcements about presentations and the meeting itself, but if you're still not subscribed to the mailing list, you can click this link over here and be subscribed. It's open to anyone. So non-NIRs can also subscribe to the session as well.

Just to introduce the agenda for today, we do have quite a full agenda. We have six presentations, four of them are updates from NIRs and two of the presentations that are on the later agenda, IPv6 at APNIC and future of NIR SIG, those are intended for discussions.

The first presentation will be from IRINN. Since it's the first meeting -- this is actually the first NIR SIG that NIXI will be attending as IRINN, after setting up the new NIR in India, so we are very interested to hear what the activities are.

So Dr Govind.

Dr Govind: Very good morning. The NIR SIG session here, thank you to Izumi, the Chair, and Jessica, the Co-chair, to organize this session. I'm very thankful to them.

It is, as Izumi said, the first NIR from India, which we have just set up the last one year, I'm glad to make a presentation on the same, how we went about it. So I will be structuring my presentation on this introduction, how the NIR was established, the formation stage, then the development of the software, then the features, the technical features and the policy features and the structure, the manpower working on this.

NIR in India basically, as you all know, will provide the IPv4 and IPv6 allocation services at affordable manner, to have the services delivered in regional languages, services to be charged in local currency to avoid exchange losses and build local capacities.

This NIR has been established with the collective efforts of National Internet Exchange of India. Internet Exchange of India, as you all know, is the national IXP modal points, coordination of that and management of that and the .in registry. The third aspect which it's started doing is the National Internet Registry also, as one of the divisions of NIXI, which we had been doing the IPv4 and IPv6 allocation services, along with the Internet Service Providers Association of India, which is the largest ISP association in the country, which we all work together to bring this NIR in India.

The Government of India Department of Electronics and IT, the ministry who is responsible for internet promotion, has endorsed the operation of NIR to NIXI, as a policy process that this will be the public/private partnership. So NIXI will be the right agency to deal with the NIR aspects as part of .in and IXP, which is already in part of NIXI.

APNIC accorded recognition to NIXI on 3 March last year after evaluation of its software to become the NIR of India. As you know, this software of NIR has been indigenously developed in the country and it is developed by the Tata Consultancy Services which is one of the largest and biggest software developers in the country and in the world, which is having a very major stake in the country as well as in all other parts of the world in the development of software and its management.

So they have developed the software and at its evaluation, the APNIC team told the executive team that it's one of the best softwares developed in NIR in record time. So we are proud to have the software development in India in this aspect.

NIR software developed by NIXI and along with the TCS and this is evaluated by APNIC team and they went through all the processes and they finally endorsed that this is the software which will make NIR happen in India.

We are calling the NIR in India as Indian Registry for Internet Names and Numbers, IRINN. We took the name from ICANN, like Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, so similarly, because the naming resources and the IP resources, together will form the critical internet resources in the country. We thought this name to be given as Indian Registry for Internet Names and Numbers.

The task of this IRINN features, this is basically to delegate IP addresses within India. India is a big country and each account holder of IRINN is referred to as affiliate. We are calling them an affiliate. IRINN provides services to its affiliates. IRINN has its own software and ticketing system with MyIRINN portal for providing the services. As MyAPNIC is there, similarly MyIRINN is going to be the portal, which as I will be indicating to you later in the slides, will be giving the complete system of ticketing system and all the features which is coming up in the IRINN.

Whois Database which syncs with the APNIC Whois Database so this is all as per the APNIC allocation and IRINN allocation are the same processes are involved. The portal is having all the features which are required for Internet resource management, similar to MyAPNIC.

These IRINN features facilitate the allocation of IP resources to a large number of small and medium companies within the country. Services to be charged in local currency to avoid exchange losses. Facilitate local training and development, which NIXI is already doing with the help of APNIC and I think last several years we have conducted IPv6 training processes in the country and more than 2,000 engineers have been trained under this process.

Organize local policy development forum as an input to regional policy development process. This is the feature which we have built in to the IRINN. So that the policy development process within the IRINN structure and IRINN affiliates, they come up and suggest whatever the policy is required to be, from time to time, providing input which will help in the regional policy development process, provide support in local languages.

As you know, India is having 22 constitutional languages, so we have a large population which are non-English speaking. With the help of IRINN, we will be able to bring out a local language interface for various services which IRINN is providing.

Technical features continuing. User friendly modules for evaluation, allocation of IPv6 addresses. Back office systems for managing Internet resources and billing software. The NIR website, the help desk and chat facilities for affiliates, Whois service, enhanced security features SSL enabled, MyIRINN Portal for affiliates to manage the resources, payment gateways services for making online payment and SMS gateway services for alert and other features.

These are all the features which have been built into the IRINN system and which is developed locally so that all these features are up to date and working.

IRINN policy features, this is in sync with the global and APNIC policies. Whatever the policy there in the APNIC and the global ICANN policies or the IANA policy or this kind of thing, this is what we have also in sync with that. Policy formulated with active involvement of ISPAI members. This policy formulation and the development of that has been done over the last several months prior to the formation of the policy development process within IRINN. The active involvement of ISPAI members. Transparency bottom-up process for any policy changes. Affiliates have freedom to choose the registry they have, whether IRINN or APNIC. They have a choice for that.

Help enhance affiliates understanding of technical policy features. There are training processes, there are systems built into the system that anyone wants to know how the policy -- how IRINN is coming up, what are the features, so there is a dedicated team within IRINN who explains to the new affiliates and they guide them to get into the system and know how to go about it.

Develop local policies and take public positions in the best interest of the affiliates and to take part in the regulatory consideration where and when appropriate.

So we are guiding the local affiliates also to come into the public policy positions, forums, so that more and more such people are able to know what is happening around the world and in the APNIC region, so that they are well versed with the policy development process, and if they have any issue on that.

Evaluation process, how to evaluate the affiliate, we have the same system as we have in APNIC. To become an affiliate an entity must submit its allocation proposal with supporting information, and the supporting documents needed for IRINN affiliation, that is Know Your Customer, KYC document, as is the usual practice worldwide. We have also adopted the same kind of documentation.

An agreement is signed between the affiliate and IRINN which contains the terms of using IP resources. Once a proper understanding has been reached and affiliate has understood that they have to get from IRINN, we have kind of an agreement document signed, as per the usual terms and conditions.

Affiliates need to submit network diagram to justify their Internet resource requirement. IRINN evaluates and approves every application according to the local and regional policies. Whatever the policies of IRINN and the regional policies of APNIC. They both come into force and see how the process had to be evolved, according to that.

The maximum delegation size for IPv4 is restricted to /32 and minimum delegation for IPv6 is /32 for LIRs and /48 for corporate affiliate in line with the APNIC policy. So these are the allocation policies which we are following from APNIC.

IRINN policy encourages affiliates to offer suggestions for improvement, so we have built-in features where if they can come up with more user-friendly features or any policy formulation, which leads to making the IRINN policy more friendly or more involved way, we also encourage that kind of thing.

IRINN is operational from December 2012 and we are having today 71 IRINN affiliates, both transfer and new ones, have joined the IRINN system. On average, IRINN is receiving one request each day, so that we can have a sufficient amount of affiliates by March 2014.

This is the IRINN operational from December 2012 till the date, what are the numbers from the transfer case and from the new members.

This gives you the snapshot of the IRINN website featuring all the MyIRINN and affiliation enquiries, tools, payment modes, all the features which are required for any resource management.

This affiliate has MyIRINN Portal to manage their Internet resources with different tools in MyAPNIC kind of thing. The other users of existing account can register on to the MyIRINN Portal with access rights of corporate, billing and technical. Users will be able to log on to the application after activation by organizational level user. These are the MyIRINN Portal features, which are there in the system.

This is MyIRINN Portal which gives the profile, change password, the resource required and the many, many features which are required by the affiliate for getting any resources from the IRINN system.

Prior to the launching of MyIRINN in India, we thought to educate and make awareness in the country. So we went around having several roadshows in the metros to begin with. We started from Chennai, then we went to Hyderabad, Bangalore, Kulkata, Mumbai and then Delhi.

I'm thankful to Sanjaya and Sunny. They also participated, along with us in these IRINN roadshows. One of the roadshows is showing in Kulkata, and this is Mr Rajesh Chharia, the ISPAI president, along with me and other board members of NIXI who participated in these roadshows and it was very overwhelming response from the members, especially from the smaller ISPs and smaller entities who are SME sector, they were quite enthused to know that such a system is there coming up in India. So they will be more coming up.

This is another snapshot of those making aware and making education to the local SME sector and other companies in the IRINN roadshows.

This is the IRINN team working, the management and then the network administrator and the Hostmaster and the help desk.

Thank you.


Izumi Okutani: Thank you very much, Dr Govind. So I think we got a very good picture of how IRINN is working and started activities as an NIR.

Does anyone from the floor have any questions to IRINN?

Masato Yamanishi (Softbank BB Corp): Let me ask a very simple question: how many local languages are you currently supporting and you have a plan to support in future?

Dr Govind: Right off we are starting with one of the Hindi languages to begin with and then we will slowly move into the other regional languages as we go along.

Masato Yamanishi (Softbank BB Corp): In total, how many languages in India?

Rajesh Chharia (ISPAI): We have 22 regional languages already in ... We are launching eight languages immediately.

Masato Yamanishi (Softbank BB Corp): That's tough.

Rajesh Chharia (ISPAI): It's not tough, because India is a very big country.

Izumi Okutani: That sounds like a lot of work to do, because in the case of Japan, we just have to support Japanese. So it's hard enough, but then supporting eight different languages, I can imagine that would be really hard.

Dr Govind: We have a language challenge in the country. We have to see that -- that is one of the purposes of IRINN to come up in the country and do things in the local language, so that the advantage is that we can have our own system in the portal and education can be in the local language and to begin with Hindi, one of the largest speaking languages in the country.

Rajesh Chharia (ISPAI): This is not a question but just a statement which I am giving on behalf of ISPAI and NIXI.

After the introduction of the NIR into our country, a lot of small corporates, professional institutes and smaller ISPs who were not getting any access to APNIC due to a lot of issues like foreign exchange, languages, now they are coming to the fold of IRINN and like the languages, what we are saying, that India in a different, different part, is a different, different languages and a little bit I can say with -- not with pride, but we can say that English is a big challenge into our country, but supporting the local languages, 22 languages, is a very big task, which NIXI and IRINN and ISPAI has taken.

We hope that whatever the support we have got from APNIC to get the NIR, and this is our first presentation into the NIR after becoming the NIR in India, I hope a lot of this presentation will come and a lot of improvement will be done and the biggest thing what we have done, the software is the Indian software developed by Tata Consultancy Services, the renowned company in our country. Thank you.

Izumi Okutani: Thank you for this information. I can totally relate to what was just stated, because same in Japan, like we have a lot of small ISPs that are not comfortable to communicate in English, they become our member and they're happy to be able to communicate locally in Japanese, so it's really great to see that IRINN has started the activities and is willing to do the language support.

So anything else from the floor? If not, then I would like to move to the next presentation.

Dr Govind: Thank you.

Izumi Okutani: Thank you very much for presenting.


Izumi Okutani: So for the next three updates, I will ask the speakers to make presentations one after the other without Q&As and then I will have a joint Q&A for three updates.

So the first will be from CNNIC, so Jessica.

Jessica Shen: Good morning, everyone. It's my pleasure today to share about the IP address allocation status and IPv6 promotion activities of CNNIC with you. My presentation will cover this information: member update, IP allocation status, IPv6 seminar and training, China domain name system upgrading project and the other activities.

Let's have a look at member update. To start, I would like to share this graph with you on membership growth. CNNIC was founded in 1997. Through six years development we have steady member growth every year and currently we have 345 members now who hold IP addresses or ASNs.

Let's have a look at the IPv4 allocation status of China and CNNIC. Until now, CNNIC has allocated 291,482 /22 IP addresses in all.

Since it is the IPv6 allocation, first let us have a look at IPv6 allocation in the world by country, because of the limited page space, I just listed the first five countries holding IPv6 addresses. China currently holds 14,000 /32s, IPv6 addresses. By having a look at the table on the right of the IPv6 allocation in China, you can find all the major network carriers in China have obtained a large IPv6 block. They are ChinaNet, China Unicom and China Mobile. After them, CNNIC members have obtained 2,200 /32 IPv6.

Below here is a graph showing that CNNIC has great growth of IPv6 amount in this year. That's because we have a member to request /21 IPv6 block.

Internet resource seminar. CNNIC always holds provincial seminars or training to help the local Internet service providers better know the new policy and technique of IP addresses yearly cooperating with the provincial government department or Internet society.

On 30 October last year, we held a seminar on the topic of Internet basic resource. There are 97 local participants. In the seminar, we invited experts to talk about the following topics.

APNIC IPv6 training. We invited APNIC to give us a three-day workshop training to those who are interested in IPv6 among our members. There are 30 participants. The training included basic IPv6 knowledge and related manual operations. Thanks to Champika's and Guangliang's excellent work as the presenters, the participants thought they really understood the course content and it would do help to their future work on IPv6 development.

Next, let me introduce IPv6 upgrading project which CNNIC is working on. The entire name is China Domain Name System Upgrading project.

As you know, domain name system is a core service on Internet. Upgrading to DNS IPv6 is an important part of the whole IPv6 transition work in China. The project is under the China next-generation Internet project, which is a large national project driven by the Chinese Government with a series of specific projects. The upgrading project is from January 2012 to December 2013. CNNIC is the undertaker of the project. Dozens of Internet service providers are chosen as co-undertakers.

After giving a brief introduction of the project, let me go into what the project does. The diagram shows the structure of the domain name system, the highest level is root, it refers to F, I and J mirroring roots in China. Then the next level is top level domain names. It refers to .cn and (Mandarin spoken). The next level is secondary and lower level authoritative servers. At the bottom level is recursive servers.

CNNIC has completed the IPv6 upgrading for the top level domain -- that is .cn domain -- in 2009. In this project, it will do IPv6 upgrading for secondary and lower level authoritative servers under .cn domains and recursive servers.

Then how to do the project. First, look at the authoritative servers. The scheme is that for the authoritative servers with good foundation, we update and reform their current network and their equipment and deploy specialised security equipment. For those with poor foundation, we co-construct authoritative hosting services and emergency back-up platform supporting IPv4 and IPv6 and deploy specialised security equipment to exist in those.

Then let's look at the recursive servers. The scheme is that for ISPs, we upgrade and reform their current network and equipment and deploy specialised security equipment. For the large number of self-built servers, upgrading all the servers is hard to accomplish. So instead, we construct the open recursive resolution service platform supporting IPv4 and IPv6 providing the free public IPv4 and IPv6 recursive solution services.

The project target is when the entire project completes, the upgraded authoritative servers will power 60 per cent of the domain names in China. The upgraded recursive servers will provide IPv6 recursive resolution service for 10 million Internet access users.

The following three slides will introduce the more specific scheme of the project. I will not go into the details. I put them there for your information.

Other activities. We are going to cooperate with local ICPs and ISPs to do the IPv6 deployment situation statistics, based on APNIC IPv6 capability tracking model.

We have done some consulting for the IPv6 address planning and network upgrading. We also do research on G-location based on IPv4 and IPv6.

As you know, the APNIC 36 will be held in Xi'an and Xi'an is a very Asian city and has many stories. I hope you will like it. Welcome to APNIC 36 and welcome to Xi'an.

That's all what I want to share today. Thanks for listening.


Izumi Okutani: Thanks very much, Jessica. I would like to personally ask many questions, but we'd like to move on to VNNIC update. For those of you who have questions, keep your questions, because we will have question time after two more presentations.

Phan Thi Nhung: Good morning, everyone. My presentation will tell you about 2012 report and plan for 2013 of VNNIC, under the umbrella of NIR organization and also the standing committee of National IPv6 Task Force of Viet Nam.

The first slide I would like to show you is the number of Internet users in Viet Nam. As at 1 November 2012, last year, we celebrate 15 years of Internet in Viet Nam. At the time, the number of Internet users we have is about 31 million Internet users, about 20 per cent of the population of the country.

This slide will update about the number of VNNIC members, even the IPv4 resources, but the number of IP member of VNNIC still increase smoothly, because most of them from the banking network or security. Just the current policy is /22s, that's enough.

This is member categories of VNNIC. Most of them are from the ICT enterprise. Maybe we have very ... There's a number of other -- you can see banking network, security companies, the government entity, education network and some from ISP and ICT enterprise.

This is the number of allocated IPv4 addresses in Viet Nam. As at the end of last year, we have around 15.5 million IPv4 addresses. We see that this is just a small number in comparison to the population of the country.

Now I would like to move to the v6. This is the number of allocated v6 addresses in ASEAN countries. In the figure, you can see Viet Nam is almost at the bottom of the table. But look what happened inside the country. I can say that IPv6 is really hot, really active in the country. We set up the IPv6 Task Force, national task force in 2009 and we issued the national road map for IPv6 in 2011. So that's really, I think it's a major matter for v6 is really ready from my point of view, v6 is running well in the country.

So these are some updates from some activities in 2012. What we do to promote for IPv6, first the national IPv6 event 2012 was held on 31 May to 1 June 2012. On behalf of VNNIC, once again, I would like to say thanks to our colleagues here, from APNIC, from TWNIC and from KRNIC and especially from APNIC for your contribution and support for the success of our event.

One more activity I would like to update you here is about the study visit to Osaka on last November 2012, VNNIC, wearing the hat of the standing committee of National IPv6 Task Force of Viet Nam, we make a group to study IPv6 study in Japan. According to Mr Kuhm, general director of VNNIC, he make his conclusion from the study visit is there's no killer application for v6 which we most expected during the past few years to foster the IPv6 progress. But from the study visit, my manager, he thinks that there's no killer application for v6. I don't know about the opinion, but for myself, I agree with him about that, yes.

One more activity we would like up to update you here about our first report about Internet resource in Viet Nam. In November 2012, VNNIC for the first time published the Report on Internet resources in the country. That's maybe considered the first data store about all kinds of Internet resource, under the management of VNNIC so that includes ccTLD, .vn, IP addresses and autonomous system number, under management by VNNIC. The detail of the reports you can see at the link I provide here.

The next session, I would like to bring you some upcoming activity about v6 in Viet Nam. First, I would like to bring you the upcoming activity about v6. We first celebrate the launch of IPv6, Viet Nam IPv6 Day, in conjunction with national IPv6 event in 2013. The exact time is 6 May 2013 and the location is in Ho Chi Minh City.

The second, we plan to perform a project to promote IPv6 deployment in small and medium enterprises, ICT enterprises, among ASEAN region, and share some more detail about this project. Just why we choose IPv6 is very easy answer. Must be one. But why we choose ICT SME object of the project? Because you know many countries have issues with their own IPv6 master plan. However, we see that the country, the master plan may be to focus to the more critical infrastructure and the major area of the industry. So somehow this may lead to the lack of awareness and the capacity for SMEs in deploying IPv6. So we think ICT SME needs another IPv6 promotion channel to ensure them to keep update with the general trend.

So what we will do for this project? First, we will perform a multi-layer survey about IPv6 deployment status among the ASEAN countries and then we will build up a set of recommendations and guidelines for ICT SME to deploy IPv6. As you know, on the long way to IPv6, those SMEs don't need to join from the beginning. Maybe they just choose some best time to join. That's our idea. We think that sure, maybe all of you here, you have any idea to help us to do the project, to make this more efficient, so please share with me and I hope maybe next time, I will update you the results of the project.

Thank you.


Izumi Okutani: Thank you. Again, please keep your questions and opinions for the VNNIC update, and we will now move to TWNIC update.

Sheng Wei Kuo: Good morning, everyone. I'm Sheng Wei Kuo from TWNIC. Today I'm glad to have the opportunity to share with you about TWNIC update.

This is my today's outline. There are including two topics. First, I will talk about TWNIC IPv6 promotion and activities. They are including Taiwan Government's initiative to deploy IPv6, TWNIC IPv6 training in 2012, IPv6 technician assessment, 2012 global IPv6 summit and the 19th TWNIC IP Open Policy Meeting, and the IPv6 transition implementation technical manual.

Second, I will talk about the IPv4 address transfer policy.

Finally, I will make a summary.

In the last meeting, I have talked about the Taiwan government's initiative to deploy IPv6, because facing the fact of IPv4 address exhaustion and the rapid growth of IPv6 services, let government be the driving wheel of IPv6 upgrade is a good method to promote IPv6.

So we adopt the smooth upgrade of government service to IPv6. There are two phases. Phase 1 we hope to upgrade the first half of public network services, such as web, DNS and email to be dual-stack enabled in 2013. In phase 2 we hope to upgrade the second half of public network services to be dual-stack in 2015.

You can read at this URL. There are many information for this program.

The government's IPv6 services are 5,279 totally. There are 257 service systems for IPv6 ready till now. The growth of IPv6 services is slowly in last year because the government's IPv6 access service is not ready. But in this year, the government's IPv6 access service is ready. The IPv6 services growth rapidly.

In last year, we hold the IPv6 training course. There are five types of courses including IPv6 basic technology, IPv6 advanced technology, three hands-on programs, including IPv6 routing and firewall, Windows server and Linux server. There are 65 classes and there are 3,152 persons to attend our training course.

We also held the IPv6 technician assessment on November 2012. The scope of the exam covered to upgrade IPv6 on Windows server, Linux server and IPv6 routing. There were 104 attendees to join it.

We held the 2012 Global IPv6 Summit and the 19th TWNIC IP Open Policy Meeting. There are 300 attendees to attend this meeting. We invite the experts to share their experiences about IPv6 transition technologies, IPv6 security, IPv6 measurement and so on. In conjunction with the Conference event, awards were given to outstanding organizations regarding their successful IPv6 upgrade. There were 29 awarded organizations with excellent performance.

TWNIC has published IPv6 transition implementation technical manual. This manual is jointly compiled by TWNIC, IPv6 program office and experts from the Internet industry to assist government bodies, industry and individuals to accelerate their IPv6 transition plan. This manual highlights basic concepts such as IPv6 addressing, steps to upgrade to IPv6 network, Internet application such as website, email, DNS, FTP, Internet security and how to activate home routers to support IPv6.

The next one is IPv4 address transfer policy. TWNIC implement this policy in October 2012. It apply between TWNIC account holders. There is not any case until now. For transfers with APNIC, other RIRs or NIRs will be future for consideration of TWNIC account holders. The detailed information of this policy you can read at this URL.

I will summarize my presentation. TWNIC currently focuses on raising skills of operators in Taiwan by training, promotion and conferences in IPv6 area. Facing IPv4 address exhaustion, we focus on IPv4 transfer policy as issues to handle the transition phase.

If you have any questions, you can ask me later. Thank you.


Izumi Okutani: Thank you. I would like to move on to Q&A for all the presentations that have been made from CNNIC, VNNIC and from TWNIC.

I would like to add one thing as well. There actually has been a request from KRNIC of KISA to make a presentation at the NIR SIG as well, but since it was focusing mainly on IPv6 activities, it has been moved to APIPv6 Task Force session, which I believe will be held tomorrow. So if you're interested to hear what KRNIC is up to, please go to the session and hear what's happening in Korea as well and what KRNIC is doing.

Any questions for each of the three NIRs?

Paul Wilson (APNIC): Thanks to everyone for those presentations. It's always great to hear more about what's happening at the NIRs and I think the sharing of information here is a really important part of the meeting. It's good to see the NIR issues being discussed, but it's also good to see the roles the NIRs are playing in things like IPv6 and it's really good, I think, here to be sharing experiences and talking about how we do our work and, in the case of IPv6, how we do our messages, how we communicate.

I just had one suggestion, actually, on the issue of the killer application for IPv6, because we keep on hearing that there is no killer application for IPv6, which is a negative kind of message. I have a counter argument to that, or a counter-point, which is there actually is one killer application for IPv6 and that is the Internet.

Don't bother me with technicalities!

IPv6 is required for the Internet to stay as the Internet and to keep growing as the Internet into the future. I actually find, in spite of Bill's technical objection, according to the lay model, I think to actually take that message that the application for IPv6 in terms of what IPv6 will do for us is to make the Internet work, and that's a sort of more positive way to approach it.

That's just a suggestion. It may be useful to you or not, but again I think this is a really useful exercise and thanks very much for the effort that has been put into it.

Kuo Wei Wu (NIIEPA): Yeah, continue regarding the IPv6 issues. I think a lot of people, just like most of the people presented about IPv6 project, also it's looking for the killer app. I think, just like Paul Wilson say, actually it's the Internet. Some of the data to share with you, you will find out, actually, we did very little to implement the infrastructure.

First of all, in the measurement index, what my institution is doing, we check the 1 million most popular websites, based on Alexa. Right now, only about 3 per cent of the website have IPv6 services. That means the website 97 per cent of them they didn't turn on the v6 services, so when you get on the IPv6, I don't know what you're going to do, you're going to see nothing.

Second of all, if you look at the DNS, for example, the gTLD DNS, about 40 per cent of the gTLD DNS didn't turn on the v6. If you belong to those gTLD, you will get nowhere because the DNS do not have v6 services. Also, the ccTLD, 25 per cent did not turn on the v6 services. So I don't know where you go.

So I think there is several things, just don't expect and don't keep looking for the killer app. Put your infrastructure ready, please. If the infrastructure is not ready, you go nowhere, really go nowhere. For the user, if any general ordinary user, they don't care, they really don't care I get v4 or v6. When I put my computer on or turn on my mobile, I want to get the Internet to get access to the content. Tell me how I can access the content. Don't tell me I'm on v4 or v6. That doesn't matter. I really don't care.

So I think that is very important. Please, if you can, NIR, tell your government, at least submit the infrastructure already. If that is not happen, then I think it's still long way to go.

One more data to share with you. Of course, based on methodology, whatever you did, you can have many different methodologies. We do have one methodology. Of course, Geoff Huston has an announcement, how many of v4 announcement. We tried to figure out how many v4 actually used by -- well, the methodology maybe not perfect, but basically what we try to do is to look up the v4 addresses existing and see how many of them is really using, for example, email, website or whatever, any application.

I have to agree my methodology is not perfect, but based on our check for three times already, the average usage is only about 40 per cent of the IPv4. So that is still a lot that people put in their pocket is not using yet. So I think that's another thing we need to discuss.

One more thing, please, when you are talking about v6, don't tell me killer app. Killer app is not a problem you are looking for. You are looking for infrastructure issues.

Izumi Okutani: Thanks, Kuo-Wei.

Rajesh Chharia (ISPAI): In IPv6, I think India is the first country, and especially from the government side, DoT, which has mandated to all the service providers to be on the IPv6 platform by the end of 2012. I can say very happily that most of the large service providers, especially the upstream providers, are now onto IPv6.

In regards to NIXI, the dual-stack has already started four to five years back. The IRINN website is also on to version 6, and all the service providers of India is very much looking forward for putting the version 6 also for the users and the demand from the user side is going to come, because right now this issue of content and access.

When we are talking of 600 million broadband connections by the end of 2020 under our BBNLN ... project in which the Government of India is investing around $4 billion to $5 billion for the project, we hope that the IPv6 will be very necessary for our country.

Izumi Okutani: I think we can have one more comment from the floor.

Naresh Ajwani (NIXI): When I was making a drive for India to get NIR, one of the biggest motivations was engagement of government with IP version 6. My entire objective was, in case NIR is accorded to NIXI, that is a partnership of a government, government will get further engaged and in the process would do something in terms of setting up the infrastructure.

That was the major motivation for me, that people can have any other opinion in this regard.

I really agree with Govind, but this time what he has said is something we need to agree and really support, that it's we who have to go back and tell our respective governments that till the time infrastructure is not in place, irrespective of any dual-stack, et cetera ... really cannot have the adoption of version 6, in the manner we want.

Fortunately, I have two colleagues from government and a man who is daily driving as a directive to ISPs, not as some kind of advice or guidance, it's coming as a directive and until the time he will not bring a mandatory kind of an environment, this transformation may not take place. So good, Mr RM Agarwal, very senior person in government Department of Telecom is also here and would like to substantiate or give us further inputs over how the government is getting engaged in this transformation. Thank you.

Rakesh Mohan Agarwal: Good morning to all of you. Thank you very much, Mr Ajwani. Myself, RM Agarwal from Department of Telecommunications and National Coordinator for IPv6 Implementation in the country. This is my opportunity to attend this meeting. Of course, this is my second APNIC meeting and I'm thankful to Mr Srinivasan and Mr Paul for making me comfortable attending this meeting.

As Mr Ajwani told very clearly, the Government of India has released first road map of IPv6 implementation in 2009 itself. Then it was suggested road map. We have just recommended our major service providers to provide IPv6 services by December 2010, and all government organisations were also directed to be ready by March 2011 to start getting IPv6 services. Of course, the National IPv6 Task Force was also formed, and also have achieved considerable milestones out of these three targets.

Now we have already come out with the second road map, which has just been approved by the Government of India just few days back only, India going to release it very shortly. Out of this road map, all other ISPs, not major, all ISPs have to offer the services in next six months time. All government departments mandatorily have to have their facilities ready in next two years time. Of course, issues as conveyed by somebody, some gentleman in this forum itself, with content and devices, so definitely all government websites have been mandated to be on IPv6 next one year's time, including .in services.

Of course, as far as contents are there, this is the first major step. Of course we are proceeding with all our content provider services, websites to be on the IPv6 in next one year to two years time and as far as devices are concerned, I'm agreed with all you present in this forum, only 5 per cent devices right now are in the v6 platform. Unless contents are on the v6 platform and devices are on the v6 platform, we cannot have the IPv6 services. For IPv6 contents, we have already mandated for the government websites. We are pursuing with the private websites and as far as devices are there, from 2014 June, every device which would come to India should naturally be on the IPv6 platform. So that is the mandate of Government of India.

That way, because we are going to have more than 950 million-plus mobile phones in the country and only 35 million IPv4 addresses, we cannot do with IPv4 addresses. Each and everyone needs to have IPv6 addresses. I think same is the condition with most other nations, so definitely we need to pursue with the respective governments to have IPv6 mandated in their own countries, persuasion will do, but definitely to a certain extent. In time, it needs to be mandated and definitely India's example can be followed by others.

Thank you.

Izumi Okutani: Thanks very much for sharing the situation in India. I agree with Naresh's comment that NIRs do have a very close relationship with the government and we also have our own rules in promoting IPv6 success and being introduced by CNNIC, VNNIC, TWNIC. So in the later part of this session, I would like to discuss how we can exchange information between NIRs in a better way rather than simply just sharing updates in the SIG.

Since the time is limited, I have to move on to the next presentation, but I hope if you have any questions, you know the speakers, so you know who to talk to, so feel free to talk to the speakers who gave presentations here.

Thanks. I move on to Miwa, who will give us a presentation about IPv6 at APNIC.

Miwa Fujii: Good morning, everybody, my name is Miwa, I'm from APNIC. As if pre-choreographed, my presentation, I think it's kind of spot on, perfect timing to come in to talk about IPv6. It is really nice to hear what you are talking in here and I'm very happy to be here to be able to share what we are doing in APNIC.

As Izumi mentioned before I come on here, yes, increasing the collaboration amongst NIRs is such a good idea. Simultaneously, I would like APNIC to be part of that loop as well, so we can all work together, APNIC and other NIRs.

Today I would like to talk about the things which are listed in here: v6 update and current APNIC key IPv6 messages, then and concluding my presentation by talking about the way forward.

IPv6 deployment status by numbers. There are so many measurements. As Kuo-Wei Wu mentioned, how to measure IPv6 deployment status is not a simple task because there are so many different measurements and so many statistics and data available. So I would like to talk about the few measurements, and probably the best way is to measure by monitoring IPv6 deployment constantly with various measurement data.

Some of you must be quite familiar with this chart showing the IPv6 BGP table size measured by Geoff Huston's Potaroo site. As you can see, the BGP table size is showing quite lot of growth year on year, last year 50 per cent growing.

The absolute number to compare to the IPv4 BGP table size is small. Previous one is like 12,000 versus IPv4 is 450,000. But probably comparing the absolute number of the BGP table prefix injection may not give us a good indication of IPv6 growth size. Probably we need to focus on the actual growth rate, simply because it's due to the difference of the nature of those protocol architecture. Before naturally more fragmented, v6 naturally more aggregated prefixes. But it's just a good indication; one indication of IPv6 growth.

This chart is showing the IPv4 versus IPv6 AS count ratio. How many AS members are announcing IPv4 versus IPv6 basically versus IPv4. It's showing about 20 to 50 per cent growth in last two years. data, it was quite interesting to learn, Jessica's presentation talking about CNNIC's plan to emulate this data measurement in CNNIC's activity. I'm looking forward very much to see what kind of outcome CNNIC can present in probably next NIR meeting.

The has been measuring the IPv6 deployment status from the end user's point of view for the last couple of years and it start collecting quite interesting data.

To analyse the data, it allows us to break down those data by AS numbers, economy level and different regional level and of course all over the entire world as a whole too.

This is one example from

The end user readiness of the world. Currently we are reaching about 1 per cent. Yes, 1 per cent is very small. But we again need to focus on the growth rate. You can see about 2011 October we are starting about 0.2 per cent and we come to quite far from 0.2 to 1 per cent. Again, 1 per cent is world average. There are quite big differences from region to region, economy to economy, AS number to AS number. Some of the countries showing very close to 30 per cent deployment ratio. This is just one indication.

The next chart is showing Southeast Asia. As I mentioned to you, the deployment level diversify region to region; in Southeast Asia, it's showing about 0.05 per cent. Southern Asia, about 0.02 per cent, around there.

I'm quite looking forward to Mr Agarwal presenting India's case tomorrow at APIPv6 Task Force and I'm very much looking forward to hearing Mr Agarwal's presentation at APIPv6 Task Force tomorrow and also in the future reflecting those governmental support towards industry with clear mandate, that I hope would result in showing the actual increase of numbers too and certainly it should reflect to southern Asia's growth rate as well, so it's quite exciting to hear your future report.

Eastern Asia is showing about 1 per cent mark and, as you can see, if you are going into this, you can click your own economy and you can see the actual growth rate of your economy in the chronological base.

Then you can also see the IPv6 preferred users by AS numbers. I just collected some of the AS numbers amongst ISPs. The AS number site contains academics and other organizations, but I just hand picked up some of the ISPs network operators readiness of IPv6.

The No. 1 is from Romania, the RDSNET, RCS and RDS, about 25 per cent; second one is Free in France, 23 per cent; and the third one is KDDI, about 20 per cent from Japan; as you can see the list in here.

As I mentioned to you, although world average showing about 1 per cent, it's diversified region to region, economy to economy, AS numbers to AS numbers. You can see the clear momentum among some AS numbers in some regions and some economies.

I would like to show other data as well. This is the data from Google. Google is basically measuring the availability of IPv6 connectivity among Google users. They reached about 1 per cent around end of last year. They thought that's a great achievement to compare to the previous slowness of the adoption of IPv6 and again, last two IPv6 world events, IPv6 Day and World IPv6 Launch, those two events in 2011 and 2012 contributed quite significantly to the growth of the IPv6 adoption.

With reflecting those current situations, APNIC's current IPv6 messages I would like to explain, APNIC IPv6 message keep evolving with reflecting the reality of the IPv6 deployment in the field, so currently, what we are focussing on, the key goal for network operators, is to avoid multiple CP swaps and migrations while they are deploying IPv6 transition technologies. We are clearly mentioning in our website and document large-scale NAT, carrier grade NAT or any other type of technologies to provide IPv6 to IPv4 NAT, ie NAT444 platforms are not a transition mechanism to IPv6 and we clearly understand some of the ISPs really need to deploy NAT444 to extend IPv4 address lifetime.

We are not denying that fact at all. But if you are doing NAT444 only, without having any IPv6 transition technologies deployment, then that's a problem. That's the message we are currently passing.

So maybe some of the NIR folks, maybe we can work together around this area as well to pass around this critical message at the right time to the right community.

We also mention that the selection of transition technologies should align with the long-term vision of the operators. Having the long-term vision in this industry is quite a challenging thing. IPv6 is a purely business decision. Lower capex and opex is the most important thing the operators consider and we clearly understand it. We just, as in APNIC, try to provide real and tangible support to achieve those business growth as much as possible in this region.

Also, with presenting some challenges, that's important too. To recognize challenges is important, but simultaneously I think we need to provide some area where ISPs and network operators can tackle. The one area we always emphasize nowadays recently is new networks of service providers are a good place to start enabling IPv6. When new subscribers coming into your ISPs network, you may need to provide a CPE, those CPEs definitely can be IPv6 ready.

Service upgrade towards existing end users, existing subscribers may be a good chance to swap the old CPEs with new CPEs with IPv6. I show you this AS numbers with high IPv6 end users ratio. Those ISPs, the common strategy they applied to enable IPv6 is to give IPv6 default for new subscribers and also service upgrade, they used that opportunity to upgrade their customer's CPU with IPv6. And I think that is the workable, viable option for many ISPs in the world.

Also, we are focusing on the IPv6 mobile networks. If you see the APNIC 34 IPv6 Plenary, you can see the presentations from the Verizon Wireless networks and China Mobile and Alcatel-Lucent. We are trying to focus on, once again, at this APNIC 35 IPv6 Plenary tomorrow IPv6 mobile networks. We are having input from T-Mobile and a person heavily involved with 3GPP standards, and also from Samsung.

So VNNIC representatives mentioned about their efforts to focus on the enterprise organization, and that's a very important area.

One more important area I would like to ask NIR people to consider is again mobile networks too. Lots of smart devices coming into the market with quite robust growth. It's growing very robustly. We really need to bring the attention of mobile operators to the IPv6 as well. So along that line, APNIC is providing some information from the network, the website and IPv6 Plenaries and the conferences too. So please tune in to the APNIC message as well.

So APNIC 35 tomorrow, I mention about this. APIPv6 Task Force also happening tomorrow too, so if you are here, please join us. We will have input from India and Korea and also many other different economies as well.

APNIC survey 2012 revealed collective input from the AP Internet community. They mention about more training and more hands-on consultancies and best current practices information to share and raise awareness amongst communities and more facilitation with local Internet communities and so on. APNIC and APNIC IPv6 program take this on board and is responding with clear plan. We are increasing more hands-on IPv6 training and providing engineering assistance on IPv6 deployment, and we are increasing more community outreach.

Reflecting those things, we basically relaunched IPv6 website of the APNIC. I'll talk about this new website content at the APNIC Services session on the 28th. Some of the website information, probably NIR folks maybe emulate or translate into your website or list as well if it suits your message. So I think this area we can collaborate on in the future as well.

The way forward: I mentioned to you the APNIC conference, one of the APNIC survey 2012 findings was quite encouraging. Many people said, about 38 per cent of people said they come to APNIC Conference because APNIC Conference have interesting IPv6 sessions. So we would like to strive very hard to maintain the high quality, the interesting, useful hands-on content for our constituents.

I think maybe around this area, we can work together with NIR folks again. Because you know the interesting deployment and real stories in your economy and I would like to outreach those new AS members who never spoke at APNIC meeting yet. We would like to have new speakers. We talked about this already.

Yes, basically, that's it. I would like to see any possible opportunities to work together with NIRs. We have done so far quite a lot of collaboration, but we would like to continue this momentum.

Thank you.


Jessica Shen: Thanks, Miwa. Since we have limited time for this section, and everyone knows Miwa, so you can talk to Miwa after that. So let's move to the next. Let's welcome Izumi to present the future of NIR SIG.

Izumi Okutani: Hi, everyone. This is Izumi. I'm speaking with my NIR Chair hat to consider about the future of NIR SIG. Since the time is limited, I think we only have five minutes left and I have briefly shared my slides in advance with all the NIRs. So instead of presenting the details of my slides, I would like to just introduce verbally what I would like to discuss and then seek your opinions and hopefully continue discussions on the mailing list.

What I feel about NIR SIG is that I think it's a very useful SIG. As you can see, we manage to exchange a lot of activities and information on IPv6. But I'm not sure if we should continue, if we need to continue this SIG in the SIG format, because if we look at the history of the SIGs, NIR SIGs used to be one of the various SIGs that we used to have as IPv6 technical SIG, DNS SIG, database SIG, et cetera. But all those technical SIGs have now been incorporated into APOPS and now you can see that they are like part of the technical sessions that are being organised.

Then, as a result, what we have is under the SIG format is only Policy SIG and NIR SIG.

The initial purpose of having a SIG, electing the Chairs and having all these formalities, was that it was assumed that we would have proposals related to each of these topics. So, for example, at Policy SIG, we have discussions and proposals and address policies, whereas when we look at the NIR SIG, at the very initial stage, yes, we used to have proposals at NIR SIG as well when we used to develop documents for criteria or setting up NIRs or operational documents and things like that.

But that has been done and then if we look at the contents of NIR SIG as you can see for the past few years, over at least five years, it's basically informational updates. It is the same for this session. So I'm wondering if we really need to go through the formality every time of calling for presentations, where I'm assuming most of the NIRs are interested to make presentations at the session anyway, so make it like a default that all the NIRs make a presentation.

I'm not really sure if it's really useful for all of you to have an election every two years. Now, myself and Jessica being the Co-chair, but since it's a small SIG and mainly focusing on information exchange between NIRs, we can make it like take turns to chair the session, like each NIR does it at one meeting and the other at the next meeting, another NIR can chair the session to share the experience.

I'm interested to hear what you think about it and especially if you have any concerns about changing the format of the session. So instead of holding it as a SIG session, just make it a regular NIR update session. Do people have any thoughts, concerns, questions about this idea?

Masato Yamanishi (Softbank BB Corp): I totally support your idea because we should promote NIR activity more to worldwide because during the discussion we get many developing countries expressed many concerns about current Internet governance but many of them comes from lack of knowledge about current RIR operations and NIR operations. Then actually this region is very diverse and all of the NIR of this region is doing very well about developing these issues. I think your idea is very good way to promote activities of NIR.

Also I have one more request for APNIC. I think APNIC report in each region doesn't contain enough information about NIR activities, so please add more info in APNIC report.

Izumi Okutani: Thanks very much for your input. I thank you for getting the message that we will continue to have a session for exchanging information between NIRs, but it's simply that it's not going to be in a SIG format.

If I don't hear any concerns or questions about this, then I would like to suggest trying this new format from the next APNIC meeting, from APNIC 36. But of course I will continue to accept any comments and questions on the NIR SIG mailing list maybe for the next one month -- I don't need to set a clear time limit, but, yes, for roughly next one month or so. So please feel free to express your opinions there and then, if no big issue, we will move to a new format from the next meeting.

Naresh Ajwani (NIXI): Scalability is generally achieved by some disruptive kind of an approach. I think we really need scalability in our approach, out-of-box thinking, our approach may help us for the same. If we can have a session which is devoted to this out-of-box thinking or a disruptive approach or bringing governments together at one place to ensure that the entire network has IPv6 some kind of compliance, I think will make a difference. So my sincere suggestion is let's have some kind of a session within it to think out of the box or disruptive way to bring the change.

Izumi Okutani: Thank you. So you're suggesting that we might invite government or think of ways to expand the way that we run the session. I think it's definitely an idea that's worth thinking about and considering.

I think it's a little bit short of time to reach conclusion at this very session, but we would like to think of ways and continue discussions on the mailing list, plus we didn't have time again this time, but I personally feel that it might be useful to have more area focused information exchange. I think IPv6 is definitely one area that is really hot and NIRs can share and exchange information. IPv4 transfer policy maybe or more technical issues such as DNSSEC or routing security. I think those are the areas that we might share interest in common.

I don't know if it's better to have it in an open session or have it in a smaller like session that we share/exchange information, we share information between NIRs, so I would like to discuss what we can do better for information exchange and collaboration between NIRs and of course with APNIC as well.

Masato Yamanishi (Softbank BB Corp): Also many developing countries have a concern about the cost of the Internet, so I think it is very helpful if you can present the way how to minimize the Internet usage cost. I think it's very helpful information.

Izumi Okutani: I didn't quite get your point. Can you elaborate a little bit?

Masato Yamanishi (Softbank BB Corp): In many developing countries, people say many people want to use Internet, but it's too expensive. So usage of Internet is still low. One of the major role of NIR is also promoting Internet in each country, but in many reports, you didn't mention about this part. That's my point.

Izumi Okutani: It's more like making the Internet more accessible for general users, and you want one NIR SIG to cover this kind of area as well. Okay, thank you for the input.

Maemura Akinori (JPNIC): Thank you very much to raise this point to be discussed with colleagues at the NIR SIG and, yes, the discussion is just ... being of yourselves, so I will reserve the discussion of how is the discussion going.

Regarding the comparison, country to country, is a bit independent topic from that of NIR, so one idea came up to my mind that it might be good to have such a comparison country to country in our region. Such kind of session would be quite helpful to that kind of comparison, definitely.

Izumi Okutani: Thanks. It might be worth thinking as a separate thing, what we do as NIRs and what we should consider in economies basis, I think that's maybe one of the ways; we can consider have a separate theme for maybe separate session. I don't know. But we can continue discussing this.

Manoj Misra (ISPAI): This point raised by this gentleman, he has very rightly mentioned that this is the good forum where we can discuss about the growth of the Internet and he has very rightly mentioned what is the problem faced by the people in terms of the cost. Because we are discussing a lot of about the policy and implementation and technology challenges and killer application and at the end of the day, each and every thing has come about the affordability of the services. So it will be very good if we can discuss what are the challenges faced by each and every country and how we can face this, what are the solutions? While you are mentioning the charges, what is the problem we are facing? If we can indicate how we have achieved this target by following the financial incentive, what is the steps taken by the government or by all the stakeholders for that.

So I think every discussion or every point, if we can counter the financial viability of sector product, it will provide us very useful information and future growth of the Internet community. Thank you.

Izumi Okutani: Thank you for the input. I will continue to discuss with APNIC Secretariat on whether we can resolve that topic in NIR SIG or we should consider another kind of session to discuss this kind of topic, but thank you very much.

Just a note, I don't mean to say we will abolish NIR SIG, it will continue as a sleeping SIG for a while, just as any other technical SIG has gone, so we can always revitalize this on a needs basis. I will summarize what we discussed on the mailing list and looking forward to continue having feedback.

Thanks very much and sorry we run out a little bit longer than it should.

Again, please feel free to talk to any of the speakers at the SIG and also for myself for anything that was being presented and thanks so much for all the speakers and also for participating.